Posts in Brave New Normal
Celebrating Empathy in Action: An Interview with Marisa Renee Lee

An Interview with Marisa Renee Lee

With Val Walker

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No matter how difficult her day might have been, Marisa’s best bet for beating the blues is to read stories of people helping others. She loves to learn how people turned empathy into action with kindness, thoughtfulness and resourcefulness. Following her passion, Marisa and her friend, Jackie Scharnick, launched a website in 2018 called Supportal which is dedicated to publishing first-hand accounts of friends helping friends who are experiencing life-changing challenges. Supportal is devoted to celebrating the infinitely possible ways that empathy calls us into action--as caregivers, as comforters and as wonderful friends. In short, as Supportal’s tagline says, “Being there starts here.”

About Marisa

Marisa Renee Lee is a graduate of Harvard College and an avid Green Bay Packers fan. She resides in Falls Church, Virginia with her husband Matt and their dog Sadie.

In 2007, Marisa founded The Pink Agenda, a breast cancer non-profit, in honor of her mother Lisa. Almost a decade later, The Pink Agenda is now a national organization of young professionals committed to raising money for breast cancer research and direct care service programs in partnership with The Breast Cancer Research Foundation. 

Today Marisa is a cross-sector leader dedicated to engaging the private sector to help solve public problems. In addition to her work on Supportal, Marisa runs a social impact firm that allows her to support a variety of institutions on organizational design and development, public-private partnership strategies, change management, and stakeholder engagement. Until 2017 Marisa served as the Managing Director of the My Brother’s Keeper Alliance (MBK Alliance), a nonprofit born out of President Obama's call to action to address the barriers to success that boys and young men of color (BYMOC) disproportionately face along the life path. Through her work with MBK Alliance, Marisa leads a collaborative, cross-sectoral movement that unites business, philanthropy, nonprofit, and community leaders, to increase pathways of opportunity for BYMOC.

 Photo: Marisa with her mother

About Supportal 
 

Supportal’s mission is to show people how to turn empathy into action. Marisa learned much about the wisdom of empathy at a young age as her mother’s primary caregiver as she struggled with multiple sclerosis and eventually succumbed to breast cancer. She and her friend, Jackie Scharmick, a survivor of leukemia, founded Supportal to help others cope with demanding ordeals where we find ourselves strapped, isolated and overwhelmed. Marisa and Jackie are committed to ensuring that “no one will have to go it alone.

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A Conversation with Marisa

Val: What brings you joy in your work with Supportal?

Marisa: Supportal’s mission gives me joy: Helping people help others. I love reading people's stories of kindness, thoughtfulness, and comfort. Supportal gathers stories of people helping others who are going through hard times. It brings me joy to know that good things are happening out there, and that people are really showing up, not just making vague promises. People need encouragement, but they also need to celebrate the action that has been taken—the difference it has made in their lives. We need to celebrate empathy in action.

Val: How do you see the internet and social media helping to bring people together around difficult issues such as illness, grief, loneliness, or other losses?

Marisa: One simple example: My friend from years ago shared his story on Facebook Messenger about losing his father. I hadn’t heard from him for so very long, and I didn’t know he’d lost his father, the only living parent he had in his life. It was great to hear from him that all of my sharing about grief and loss made him feel less alone in his own grief. It reminded me that the online spaces—Supportal, social media, etc., can be a great way for people to find connection with others going through similar experiences. No one needs to be alone.

Val: Do you think the internet and social media can cause social isolation?

Marisa: If young people, especially children and teens, are onscreen too much of the time, I think it can be damaging for their social development and limits their social skills—just being able to have conversations. Also, social media can set us up to believe in unrealistic expectations--standards that we can never live up to. It's isolating to feel that we aren't living the way we think we are "supposed" to be living. That’s why I think it’s important for us to share real stories online like the ones found on Supportal. So, yes, there can be a downside to social media, but at the same time it can play an important role in bringing people together. It really is all a balancing act.

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Val: What is in store for Supportal?

Marisa: I'm developing Supportal to be a one-stop-shop for what to do when something bad happens to someone you care about. If someone we love suffers from a divorce, a miscarriage, a job loss, or a death, what can we say and do? How can we help? Supportal provides readers with first-hand accounts of people who have been through a life-changing challenge and share what helped them most. We provide ideas for gifts, goods, services, and practical tips for how to show up for those in need.

Val: It’s heartening that Supportal teaches us through stories that show us how to support people in distress. There’s nothing like real-life experience for how to comfort others!

Marisa: Right. Stories are wonderful for giving examples of empathy in action, how to respond to our friends and loved ones who are in difficult circumstances. Stories have a way of showing us what to do. Stories are about challenges and how we face them—but we don’t have to be alone facing those challenges-- let’s celebrate the ways we are supported by others! That’s why I co-created Supportal. We don’t have to do it all alone.

Val: Thanks for sharing your time with us! 

Marisa: Thank you--this was fun!

More about Marisa

Marisa’s background is remarkably extensive, and I would like to share more here

In 2010, Marisa joined the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) as an appointee in the Obama Administration. During that time, she was able to begin to combine her passion for service with her finance and small business background. At the SBA, Marisa focused on entrepreneurship and access to capital in underserved communities. Marisa supported the Agency’s program offices on outreach, restructuring and creating new lending programs, and the formulation and implementation of policies to promote entrepreneurship. Marisa also coordinated minority business engagement activities across the Obama Administration. Additionally, Marisa spearheaded a series of Urban Economic Forums co-hosted by the White House and the SBA. These forums connected thousands of urban entrepreneurs to public, non-profit, and private sector business development resources.

In 2013, Marisa accepted a position with the White House Domestic Policy Council as a Senior Policy Advisor for Urban Affairs and Economic Mobility. Marisa directed all engagement efforts for the President’s Ladders of Opportunity and Promise Zones initiatives. Marisa later served as Deputy Director of Private Sector Engagement at the White House where she oversaw public-private partnerships and relationships with the business community on behalf of President Obama.

In 2016, Marisa was recognized in the Chronicle of Philanthropy 40 Under 40 as a “Rabble Rouser for Obama.” In 2017 she was named a member of the Ebony Power 100 amongst other Community Crusaders she greatly admires. In 2018 she was a contributing author to the book Modern Loss, a series of candid stories and illustrations on grief. In addition, she has been a featured speaker at several forums including SXSW. Marisa has also written op-eds on race, opportunity, and economic mobility for CNN, Philanthropy News Digest, News One, and other outlets.

Resources

Supportal

My Brother’s Keeper Alli

The Pink Agenda


Courage Is Contagious: An Interview with Dr. Anne Hallward
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ABOUT DR. ANNE HALLWARD

Dr. Anne Hallward is the host and founder of Safe Space Radio and a board-certified psychiatrist in Portland, Maine. Anne’s interest in difficult subjects began in her teens, when she noticed how few adults around her seemed to be talking about intimate or difficult subjects. Formerly on the faculty at Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Hospital, she designed and taught courses on death and dying, cultural competence, sexuality, and psychiatric interviewing, and has published on death and dying, cultural bias in medicine, sexuality, and hunger in the Philippines and Bangladesh. Anne is the recipient of the Ulrich B. Jacobsohn Lifetime Achievement Award from the Maine Association of Psychiatric Physicians, the Jeanne Spurlock Social Justice Award from the Association of Women Psychiatrists, and the Exemplary Psychiatrist Award from the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI). She has also been recognized for her work in radio with a Gracie Award for Best Host of a Local Radio Show. Anne speaks internationally on stigma and shame, traumatic silence, and voluntary vulnerability as a form of leadership.

INTRODUCTION: WHY I WANTED TO TALK WITH ANNE

Could there be anything lonelier than not being able to talk about something terribly difficult—something that no one feels safe talking about? One of the greatest causes of social isolation is carrying the burden of stigma, shame or silence. We need safe spaces, or safe people, for sharing what is keeping us isolated and ashamed. Safe spaces are essential to breaking through the walls of isolation. I’d heard of Safe Space Radio in the years I’d lived in Maine yet had never listened to it until I moved to Boston a few years ago. Anne Hallward, a psychiatrist, was the host, so I’d wrongly assumed it was for issues about mental illness until I recently discovered it’s for talking about anything that’s hard to talk about.

The first thing I saw on Anne’s website for Safe Space Radio says it all: The show about the subjects we'd struggle with less if we could talk about them more. Heartened after reading her engagingly informative website and listening to a podcast, I reached out to her, first with an email, and then with a phone call. She graciously answered, and we spoke right away.

I was grateful that Anne could take time for an in-depth conversation about what it takes to create a safe space, and how safe spaces help us break through isolation. Our conversation alone was powerful enough to give me a boost to be more courageous in “going there” with the topics we usually shy away from. After speaking with Anne, I have a new motto: Courage is contagious.

INTERVIEW WITH DR. ANNE HALLWARD

Val: Since launching Safe Space Radio in 2008, you've interviewed hundreds of guests. Though you’ve covered a wide range of compelling topics, has there been a common, prevailing message from all your guests through the years?

Anne: Yes, there is a common message. People have a wish to turn their struggles into a gift for others. They give voice to hidden and silenced stories in order to help others. We started out with a focus on reducing the stigma of mental illness, so I talked with many people who had struggled with depression,  anxiety, or addiction.  Each guest wanted to share their story because they didn’t want others to feel as alone as they had.  They wanted to help to reduce shame and stigma.  Soon we began to include a much wider range of topics including homophobia, racism, sexuality and death and dying, and each guest brought the hope that the story of their struggle could be freeing to others.

Val: Because we all have a sense of what a safe space means, I would love to know what safety means to you.

Anne: I used to think that safety referred to the absence of physical threat. But now I think of it more internally, as the feeling of being able to be fully oneself. A common threat to a sense of safety is shame, and the forces, both internal and external, that tell us that we are not good enough.

So, safety begins inside ourselves and then extends to our personal relationships, our communities, our culture, and our nation.

Safety means being able to reveal our whole selves to each other and that entails two important things: feeling able to share our vulnerability as well as our strengths. The invisibility of either side is painful, so being safe means we are free to express both parts of ourselves. For example, when thinking of refugees, we often only see their suffering and don’t see their gifts. They had to flee their country, arriving here as people of color, needing help. The lens of a stereotype can blind us to their extraordinary gifts. For women, and people of color, and those with disabilities and other marginalized identities, safety is not only about honoring difference and vulnerability, it is about seeing and respecting strength.

Sharing our vulnerabilities as well as our gifts also applies to the topic of asking for help. I’ve learned from my guests that we avoid asking for help because we are afraid that our needs will define us. We fear that people will only know us through our needs or vulnerabilities. Indeed, if either our gifts or our vulnerabilities are invisible, it’s very painful. If I trust that you can hold both sides of me in your mind, and we can fully know each other—then that’s what safety means.

Val: I’ve never thought of safety in that way—to be able to show our vulnerabilities as well as our gifts. So, when you have a guest on your show sharing a painful ordeal in her life that was stigmatized and shamed, her strengths still shine through.

But, speaking of stigma, can we ever get rid of it?

Anne: Erving Goffman (a well-known sociologist) says, “Stigma is a sense of spoiled identity that you cannot wash off.” That’s why we need to share our strengths at the same time we share our vulnerabilities, so the needs don’t end up defining us in a stigmatized way. We need to see each person as whole. Safe Space Radio is one public health approach to fostering greater empathy and understanding in order to reduce stigma. As the famous gay activist, Harvey Milk, once said, “This is how the revolution will happen, one lonely teenager at a time.” Each time someone dares to come forward publicly with a silenced story, the culture shifts incrementally.

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Val: Your message is powerful. But what if we are socially isolated and don’t have a safe person to turn to? To confide in?

Anne: Therapy has a tremendous value here. Many of us have had painful experiences of trying to share our vulnerability with someone, and feeling judged or rejected, so we might be understandably afraid to make ourselves vulnerable again and could benefit from a therapist with whom we can practice being vulnerable. Support groups are also spaces to practice being vulnerable. If there are no support groups that you feel you can belong to, then you could start your own. For example, Alyson Thompson, a biracial woman in St. Louis was struggling with feeling left out, isolated and feeling like there was nowhere she belonged.  She created a monthly meet up group through Facebook, called “Mixed Feelings” which has attracted a large group of other biracial folks in her area.

Val: That’s a great name for her group. Facebook was an ideal way for Alyson to launch her group. But looking at social media overall, do you think it decreases social isolation or increases it?

Anne: Social media can go both ways. It can bring people together (as it did for Alyson), but it also can be isolating because comparing ourselves to others can be a source of great loneliness. Research on social media is not my area of expertise, but social media seems to perpetuate “in your face” comparing of ourselves with others which can make us feel inadequate and alone.

Val: What inspired you to start Safe Space Radio?

Anne: From a young age, I’ve always been hungry to talk about the things that weren’t named--topics that were avoided and kept secret. When I was in medical school doing my pediatric rotation, I watched children being held down while tubes were being put in them, and watching their distress really troubled me. Of course, these procedures were necessary and life-saving, and were done with the best intentions, but it still troubled me, and I wanted to find out more. I began doing research on this topic, as well as research with my own medical records from my childhood.

I made a discovery. I found out that I was hospitalized for a serious infection as a toddler of 18 months and isolated for 10 days on an infectious disease unit. My mother had just given birth to my younger sister and was not allowed to visit me for those 10 days. This was a traumatic experience for me, and I had many nightmares throughout my childhood. Yet no one ever spoke about this. Childhood medical traumas like these are often unrecognized, because the intention of the doctor is to help the child. But from the perspective of the child, the experience may feel akin to assault.

But thank goodness for my medical records, and for medical school that uncovered what had happened to me! I felt a great sense of relief that my early experiences could be named. And I felt a deep passion to humanize our patient experiences by sharing our stories. I now ask new patients about medical trauma whenever I take a trauma history, and this has brought up so many stories of suffering that the person hadn’t fully understood or recognized as being legitimate trauma. I began a research project by interviewing women with a history of childhood medical procedures, measuring the long-term psychological consequences. The surprise to me was how grateful they each were to have their struggles validated, and how eager they were to let me use their stories to try to change and humanize medical practice. The experience of living with the shame of a silenced story, then discovering the power of telling it for my own healing and the healing of others inspired me to begin Safe Space Radio.

Val: That is an amazing story, Anne. It must have been so frightening at 18 months old to be isolated in a hospital room, separated from your mother among strange people in white coats doing painful procedures. It’s so important to tell this story.

Anne: I would like to share something I learned from guests on my show about what it takes to tell our stories. I used to think my role as the host was to create a really safe space so my guests could tell their most courageous story. But over the years, I’ve learned that I had it backwards; it was their courage that creates that safety for others and for our listeners. Where there is safety, there is someone who has had the generosity to make it so through their own courage.

When I was interviewing Ebrahim Rasool of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa, he told me a story about the role that psychiatrists can play in fostering courage. He said people who had been tortured were offered an opportunity to see a psychiatrist before they gave their testimony to the commission. The role of the psychiatrist was to foster their courage, to help them tell their story and give voice to their silenced trauma.  He called this the work of “en-couragement.”  He told me that we should always think of the word en-courage as having a hyphen. He taught me that hearing the stories of others and being taken seriously when we dare to speak foster our courage. Courage is contagious. Learning about the meaning of en-couragement transformed my work as a clinician. An important part of my role as a psychiatrist is to foster courage.

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Val: It rings so true when you say courage is contagious. We can foster courage in each other by telling our stories. That’s why Safe Space Radio is so powerful. I’m wondering what topics you will be covering this fall? Any new initiatives?

Anne: We are now in conversations with WBUR to be our distribution partner to NPR stations nationwide. We are creating a 4-part series that covers topics that are hard to talk about. The first show is called Apologies. What do we need to make our apologies truly healing? The second show is Asking for Help. We often underestimate people’s willingness to help and miss opportunities to be supported by others. Our third show is called Loneliness. How can we reduce the stigma and shame about loneliness? And finally, the fourth topic is Talking to Kids about Race and Racism. White people tend to feel awkward about this topic. How can we find useful ways to help kids understand and begin to address the disparities they see around them without reinforcing stereotypes?

Val: We could learn so much from courageous conversations about these topics. Anne, you’ve opened my eyes about what a safe space really means and about how our stories foster courage in ourselves and one another. People like you encourage us to be brave and to speak about the unspeakable things.

Thanks so much for your time today.

Anne: Thank you. I enjoyed our time.

A Sense of Purpose: Turning Grief into Action

Another Conversation with Robyn Houston-Bean, Founder and Director, The Sun Will Rise Foundation

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In our first interview, Robyn shared how the support from her grief counselor, her friends, and her support group had all helped to hold her through her darkest months after her son’s overdose.

Nearly a year after his death, she discovered that community action was her path to healing, and started her own support group in Braintree, MA. Soon she launched The Sun Will Rise Foundation. Her insights about how support groups and community service can empower us after a tragedy sparked a whole new conversation.

Val: Can you describe what gave you a sense of purpose a few months after Nick’s death?

Robyn: After a few months of grieving, I attended an event with a group called Hand Delivered Hope that does street outreach for those living with active addiction and who call the streets home. Joining in with other families and feeling so welcomed and accepted, it suddenly struck me that I had a sense of purpose: My child was not here anymore, but I could help another child. Although my Nick wasn’t here, someone else’s child needed my love and support. This warm, friendly group and others, such as Let It Out and The Boston Grief Group, inspired me and gave me strength to start my own group in Braintree. I knew we needed a grief support group closer to where I lived because I finally realized the scope of all this grief out there in the world. It’s so important that support groups are convenient for local people to meet and come together easily. We need people to understand us and validate our feelings, so we don’t have to make excuses for our tears and our laughter.

Val: I would love to learn more about how helping others is healing for you.

Robyn:  To put it simply, helping others helps me. I know that if I didn’t go down the path of helping others, I would be at a different place with my grief. Helping others forces me to step out of my own pain and hear and feel the grief of others. The group members are so appreciative to have a place to put their grief. Nick was so compassionate and caring, and each time someone is helped with our group, I know he is smiling down on me.

Val: It amazes me that you went straight to the Braintree Town Hall to ask about starting a support group. How did this happen?

Robyn: I knew a person who worked for the mayor, so I floated the idea of having a group at the town hall. Right away that person thought it was a great thing for our town to do. What a perfect way to say “no” to the stigma about the opioid crisis by having this group right at the Braintree Town Hall! After the group was going for a while, we had our first fundraiser for the foundation right there at the town hall. We have been lucky because not all communities have embraced the idea that substance use disorder can happen to anyone, and that we all need to work together to help prevent it.

Val: What was it like learning to be a group facilitator?

Robyn: I doubted myself very much at the beginning, but I received such great support from some of the facilitators. My doubts were erased very quickly. Figuring out the logistics, learning about facilitating, getting the word out so people in grief could find a tribe—all this kept my mind busy and kept me going in the early days.

Val: How is having a purpose contagious with other families affected by the opioid epidemic?

Robyn: I'm amazed how powerful it can be when people who are usually on the margins are given a voice. Grieving is hard enough, but on top of that, it’s a stigmatizing death, and it can cause people to focus inward and avoid dealing with day to day life.  It can cause grievers to be left alone in their grief by friends and a community that doesn't know how to deal with loss. Being part of our community, a place where people are safe to explore their feelings no matter what, a place where we can share anger, confusion, sadness, hopelessness, guilt and not be judged is a powerful thing. Having someone there to say, "Me too, I've felt that way" can really make a huge difference in our lives. Once you know you aren't alone, that there are hundreds of people out there who have felt your pain and have survived-- not only survived but lived again after loss--can be an incredibly healing realization.

Here are some ways that support groups have helped to turn grief into action:

  • People build new friendships.

  • They advocate for change in their own towns.

  • They work to change laws.

  • They gather together in prevention activities.

  • They support the newest members of the group.

  • They find their voice again.

I'm so glad the people who led the path before me gave me my voice, and that I have played some small part to help others find theirs.

Val: Robyn, you have been so generous with your passion and wisdom. Thanks so very much for all you have done.

Robyn: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk with the Health Story Collaborative.

Recommended Resources